When the kingdom of heaven intersects our world
Last Friday night Estie returned from an evening at a nearby house of prayer. She’s a practical girl, prone to skepticism, and when she showed me the gold dust on her hands, I could hear the incredulity in her voice.
Many of us join with her in asking the question, “Why is it that gold …
By Seth Barnes
Last Friday night Estie returned from an evening at a nearby house of prayer. She’s a practical girl, prone to skepticism, and when she showed me the gold dust on her hands, I could hear the incredulity in her voice.
Many of us join with her in asking the question, “Why is it that gold dust shows up out of thin air? What is that about?”
I chalk it up to the kingdom of heaven intersecting our reality. Some scientists have suggested that there are perhaps seven dimensions, most of them beyond our understanding of a space-time continuum. If so, the kingdom of heaven exists in all of them. What happens when it intersects our simple three dimensional world? Intersections abound if we’ll look for them.
And it radicalizes us when our limited understanding of reality is too small to hold that reality. For a great current example, read this blog by Jamie Neumann.
Because we tend to live our lives according to our five senses, Jesus used analogies to describe it. The video below helps bring them to life. It’s worth considering: How has your understanding of reality been impacted by an intersection with the kingdom of heaven?
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Very cool and right on Seth. I can almost relate to your synergetic excitement as you heard her talk about this. Sarah had watched Finger of God at the Williams house in SA not so long before the day of heaven bound for her. I remember when she told me..it was truly great and so glad I got to hear of the happenings. She had experienced gold dust and many others in that place. She, too being a bit skeptic..but very passionate about others and tasting heaven was this real place for her. I couldn’t put the phone down as she told me. This year when we visited the Williams, Cheryl told me about that night also. Thanks for explaining a bit about that for me. I can tell in the physical here that when I have my eyes on Kingdom..heaven bound work..i’m challenged to step out of the boat more! Praise God for the universe is at HIS command and we will trust HIM for the next step. God is doing great and mighty things..should we be surprised..HE said HE would! Have a most glorious day. Dwight is taking John out west to Pierre, South Dakota to experience and work on a wheat combine crew with some dear friends. John is so excited. A dream coming true. Hi to your family. Love, Peggy and all
Read this with mixed feelings – delighted that she experienced God, really concerned about the gold dust stuff. All that kind of thing was going on at the so called Lakeland Revival and is, I believe, not sourced by God. The dust thing happened to some people I know here and it caused nothing but division and disappointment for people (particularly children) who felt God had passed them by.
I personally feel it is a deception, sourced by spirits other than the Spirit of God and there is nothing in Scripture that supports it that I have ever found. Estie’s questions are entirely valid. Why would God do that? What is it for? What is it all about? If you have an entirely scriptural answer to that one, I would love to hear. In the meantime, I steer well clear.
I realise I may be alone in this opinion on here! Not out to offend anybody but I would nevertheless urge phenomenon of this nature to be handled with extreme care and discernment.
Isaiah 55:8&9 ” For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways” says the Lord.” For the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts”
1cor 2:9 “but it is written:”eye has not seen,nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love Him”
John 21:25 And there are also “many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written”
We should not be to quick to say that this can not be of God. We must not take away the holiness and the sovereignity of God. God is God!!!
just some thoughts..not answers..
Interesting thoughts, Kathy, thank you. I am not quick to say this stuff is not of God. I have thought, prayed, studied, researched………it disturbs my spirit deeply and I take notice of that.
If it is God, no doubt He’ll correct me. Weighing these things and using discernment are godly commands and I don’t think that takes away from the holiness and sovereignty of God. He is still holy and He is still God and He can do as He pleases.
So called “signs” such as this that I have witnessed time and again send the church off on distraction more often than not. They go looking for God that way. They want the signs, they want the feelings, the experiences, the gold dust, the warm fuzzy stuff, they want to get ministered to. They tell themselves they are hungry for God but actually they become more and more hungry for the signs, for God to show up in that way, and go looking for them.
The reality of the Kingdom of God intersecting with our world is seen in that video far more – people feeding the hungry, reaching out to the broken, comforting the widows and the orphans. That’s what it’s all about, not fluffy feelings and gold dust. I’ve watched so many people spend themselves for meetings to get experiences like this, specifically to get drunk in the Spirit or “catch the fire” and while they are in meeting after meeting, the orphans go hungry and the broken world out there stays broken.
I don’t want to limit God! But the fruit of these phenomenon is far often inwardly focussed than externally focussed. Just an observation. I still urge caution with all these phenomenon and look for godly fruit in it, the stuff that lasts and makes a difference.
Carol Im sure you and I could have many a good discussion on this topic 🙂 and I understand your concerns and many cases they are valid but I could probably share many cases where you concerns are not. We can not lump all people and all experiences in together. Even in the scriptures it showed that some where after just the “power” of being able to do what the apostles did but it didnt take away from the authentic ones performed. There will always be those chasing after feelings etc. But I know many whos lives were radically changed to serve the kingdom of God by having a “experience” because heres the thing I know that I know that I know that just one experience with the real living God in whatever way it comes..through your own private experience or through a church meeting , revival , worship , serving , will change you forever and you can and will never be the same! even if you feel God never shows up again it empowers you to push forward and push forward in serving the kingdom of God. Theres a worship song out there that says it all Just one touch from the king by Godfrey Birtell if you get a chance you tube and have a listen..
blessings and joy to you today.
Thanks for your thoughts Kathy. I think, with the deepest of respect, we shall have to agree to differ on this one.
I never discount any life changing experiences people may have – I have had a few myself and was grateful for them. Yet I do find they are often the exception rather than the rule, but God bless those who are the exception! Not everyone becomes a sign or experience chaser, but many do and become disappointed unnecessarily with God as a result. I guess God didn’t call His precious people sheep for nothing!!
I do know that song you mention – you are right, it is a lovely song, I shall go and play it again as I haven’t heard it in ages. Thank you! Thanks for your thoughts. It’s never a bad thing to think aloud again with someone else what you think and why you think it. It challenges you afresh and it’s always welcome. Thanks.
Hi Melinda, thanks so much for your thoughts and shared experiences here. Thanks for taking the time to write it all down, much appreciated.
I love the story of your “Mother Teresa” there. I’ve had many experiences in the past of laughing and of that amazing overwhelming thing that happens when you feel the warmth and weight of the presence of God that you can scarcely breathe. I utterly agree that true experiences of God in that way empower you, do deep works within you and you look around later and see the fruitfulness and know that it came from God at work in you when He did that, that it is the outworking of all He put in and did deeply within you in those times.
In honesty, much of my mistrust of the more bizarre manifestations such as gold dust, gem stones falling out of the air, tooth fillings turning into gold fillings etc comes from the research and praying I did around the whole Lakeland thing. Much of it was attributed the angels and one particular angel called Emma. This particular “angel” had misled and misguided people before in history and many people I trust who have great gifts of discernment strongly shared the disturbance in our spirits over this whole thing. The fruit we observed locally was dischord, purely selfish seeking for the phenomena, a lack of love or reaching out anymore both within the church and outside of it, and of course the separate issue of the whole immorality of the Todd Bentley leadership and the way he conducted himself.
You are right of course. The devil can copy anything of God’s and he does. I receive what you say, that maybe sometimes it is actually God. I trust your experience there because I know Seth trusts you. You are so so right that it is seeking first HIM and His Kingdom and righteousness and that that keeps things in their proper perspective.
Discernment is essential and a Biblical command. Weigh everything. Just because someone just spoke the word of God to you one minute doesn’t mean everything they say the next is of God too. We are all capable of getting it wrong. Look at Peter – one minute he declares Christ the Son of God, in the next breath he tries to offer Jesus another way other than the cross and gets one of Jesus’ strongest rebukes – “get behind me Satan. You do not have in mind the things of God but the things of man.”
Sponges worry me. People who soak whatever is taught or experienced up without thought, prayer or discernment. Sponges tend to become aggressive if you challenge them.
But I hear what you say about not letting discernment box me in and make God smaller than He is. I’m listening. My thinking isn’t set in stone and if it is, it should be broken up. Thanks for your time and thoughts. Thanks for helping me chew this aloud. I’ll pray that one through and see where it takes me. Blessings on you and yours.
A few thoughts that I want to deliver to you Carol in hopes u will consider a God who is sometimes wider and wilder than we can yet comprehend:
Discernment is so key in these days and I have seen ‘phenomena’ distract people- but I’ve also seen it encourage them. ‘Greater works than these…” Jesus declared to us as our future- and there were some ‘phenomenal’ supernatural works already in that list. ‘Signs’ are part of His DNA as well.
For the last 25 yrs of my life I’ve ministered to the poor, the neglected, streetkids, prostitutes, orphans and widows. I am very ‘practical’ that way. Jesus was very practical that way too. But Jesus also guarded His time with His Father- because it was out of such intimacy that the power He needed for ‘the practical’ came.
Gold dust and other phenomena lead some people on wild goose chases- but I have seen others who have been encouraged and empowered by witnessing such things.
You mentioned, “I’ve watched so many people spend themselves for meetings to get experiences like this, specifically to get drunk in the Spirit or “catch the fire” and while they are in meeting after meeting, the orphans go hungry and the broken world out there stays broken.”
One of the ‘Mother Teresa’s’ of our day who has helped more orphans and widows and the poor than you or I ever will, accounts for her ability to do so due to the love God pours into her when she is ‘drunk in the Spirit.’ This woman has a doctorate from the most respected theology school in the UK and speaks about 8 languages. Prior to her encounters with God’s supernatural manifestations, she labored on the mission field with limited success. She then encountered God with His ‘phenomena’- and rather than it distracting her, it propelled her to a place of incredible fruit in the Kingdom.
Before that happened tho, the largest supporter of her then 200 orphans said, “Do you want to feed orphans or laugh?” He gave her an ultimatum about ‘denouncing’ the ‘laughing’ encounter she had with Jesus or losing his support. I watched the tears stream down her face because she had such an incredible heart of compassion (you usually do if you sell all you have to minister in a Third World nation and take in 200 orphans)- but she was also a woman of truth. She agonized over that ultimatum, but in the end, she could not deny what God had done in her life, both in allowing her to feed orphans and to laugh in His presence. They didn’t have to be mutually exclusive, so she trusted God that He would provide for His orphans another way, but she would not deny His supernatural manifestations in her life.
Personally I have encountered the gold dust thing here and there with people who it did not lead astray. Once I was on my knees praying at home alone, when gold dust appeared. I didn’t really even ‘believe’ in it then, so I was shocked. But I had been having such an intimate prayer time with God, & almost breathless in awe at His presence, that I knew this gold dust was not of the devil. The devil can certainly try to pervert the gifts of God, but we can continue to ‘Seek Him first’ and keep things in their proper perspective.
By the way, that particular gold dust experience of mine (that occurred almost 10 yrs ago) I’ve only relayed to 1 friend and my husband. It occurred privately so I saw no need to publicize it. I’m only telling you in case God really is wanting to stretch you into deeper and wider places of His Kingdom.
I am so with you in exercising discernment, but I also encourage you to be careful that discernment does not become something it is not meant to: in keeping us ‘boxed’ with God to only what we can comprehend or explain ourselves.
However you proceed, know that I am praying for more of His Kingdom come, His will be done, here on earth in your life and mine, as it is in heaven.