Very interesting point Seth. I have worked with families and children for many years now – both secular and spiritual. In the secular world, it is called by many names, depression, psychosis, etc…I had many a conflict with Mental Health officials about “causes” of why people do things. In the church, we have now accepted that sin, demonic activities are now called problems, or hang-ups. What I have noticed in may years loving Jesus is that we do have a sin problem, and yes, Jesus had demons to deal with, and so do we. Interesting, I never heard Jesus say to the different people he healed or delivered “It is okay, you were hurt or abused as a child, your mania, depression, or sin is just because of what you went through.” He spoke his word and delivered them. We must do also, speak God’s word against sin and demonic activity. Yes, I do believe there are chemical issues with some, but isn’t that possibly a spirit of infirmity? I have only seen that Jesus works, not any pill, or counselor(although God allows us in his mercy and grace to use these). Jesus is truly the answer for the world today. Let us not become so confomred to the ideas around us, that we accept people and their issues as something to live with…let us speak Jesus’ words…maybe this young man would have been set free.
By now you’ve seen the news reports – the YWAM shooter, Matthew
Murray, was kicked out of a missionary training program five years ago for
strange behavior, and talked about hearing voices.
Another YWAMer, Richard Werner, said
Murray was told in December 2002 he would not be allowed to join a mission trip
to Bosnia. That was five days after Murray performed a pair of dark rock songs that included one by Marilyn Manson at a concert at the YWAM base that left fellow workers
“He would say, ‘Don’t worry,
I’m just talking to the voices,’ ” Werner said. “He’d say, ‘Don’t
worry, Richard. You’re a nice guy. The voices like you.’ “
Unless you’ve had to confront
demonic activity, if you’re like a lot of Christians, when you read these news reports, I’m guessing you’re looking for a rational explanation for the voices.
Surely its some form of psychosis. A chemical imbalance.
My own belief is that a personal evil has been assigned the task of our
destruction – yours, mine, and Matthew Murray’s. I’ve seen people targeted over
and over again. Murray and his
victims are a good illustration that our enemy is alive and at work here in this
most rational of countries.
I’ve got a friend who confronted the demonic voices behind his teenage niece’s anorexia last week. She was dying. My friend didn’t mess around with behavioral modification – he cast those evil things into the outer darkness and, because he was a thousand miles away, he did it over the phone. In the week or so since, she gained 17 pounds and is smiling again.
Some of you have an anorexic faith. The good news is that Jesus gave us all authority to boldly confront evil and to tell it where in hell to go. That’s what Murray needed – deliverance from evil, not psychoanalysis.
If you have never really appropriated this authority, today would be a good day to step up to the plate and get it. And if you want a good example of how this works, read Eric’s blog.
I agree 100% with Mark.
Seth-I was just about to blog on this under reported portion of the story until I saw that you already had.
We were thinking in the same line. I just commented on another blog that the shooter was also known to be a “computer junkie”. This reminded me of the fact that this generation has access to every form on evil with just the click of a mouse. The devil still comes to steal, kill, and destroy, but it seems that he has gained a bigger open door from the time some young people give to places they shouldn’t be on the internet.
At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how people ended up in bondage, but if we are helping them get free. I agree with you. Evil has been assigned to us, but we have authority to send it back to hell where it belongs and we should…often, for ourselves and for those who need our help.
In agreement, also AND let’s pray for YWAM as I am sure they are taking a deep search in prayer. God has so used this mission all over the world with countless miracles. In the past, they have not been ignorant about such things. As for now, this could be used of God for a great surge forward in their ministry of deliverance. It is true that demons have been left with much freedom due to the Church trying to soothe them through drugs, psychology, etc. It’s the refusal to call them for what they are and move in Christ’s authority. But for those who DO recognize them for what they are, it’s then the faith with action where many of us are weak.
wow.wow.wow. i have Holy Spirit goose bumps right now. this is the truth spoke. just this conversation alone is making a difference in the Kingdom.
ditto to all of it!
Amen! Call it what it is!
Guys, please. I work in mental health and am a Christian. He was experiencing psychosis and delusions. He was not getting the help he needed nor medical management. Worse place to be for an individual like that is ywam, where most do not understand mental health and only understand things through their narrow mindset.Christ teaches us to start using wisdom. Let us start.
Misconceptions about schizophrenia
Schizophrenia may exist alone or in combination with other psychiatric or medical conditions. Misconceptions about schizophrenia and its relation to other mental illnesses abound. The following truths will help clarify what it is and is not:
* Schizophrenia isn’t the same as a split or multiple personality. Multiple personality disorder is a separate, rare condition.
* Although some people with schizophrenia develop violent tendencies, most don’t. Many withdraw into themselves rather than interact with others.
* Not everyone who acts paranoid or distrustful has schizophrenia. Some people have a paranoid personality disorder, a tendency to be suspicious or distrustful of others, without the other features of schizophrenia.
* Not everyone who hears voices is schizophrenic. Some people with depression may hear voices. Hearing voices may also occur as a result of a serious medical illness or from the effects of medication.
You and psychology describe well the symptoms and patterns by observation and study. But WHY do these “conditions” torment people? The Wisdom you spoke of gets to the roots. That’s what Jesus did. But now we have a Church that seems to know psychological beliefs and terminology more than they do the Word of God. Did demons go away? Are the NT Scriptures not instructive to us? Jesus came to set people free, not trade one bondage (mental illness) for another (drugs). I believe many Christians go into the field of psychology who are compassionate and particularly gifted to help in these areas. My encouragement is to remember the goal (free to love and be loved and do the will of God) AND the means (the Truth found in the Word of God, the delivering power of Jesus and the love of the saints.)
Well said Kathy!
As one who had demons casted out of her, including schizophrenia (all documented), I can appreciate when people rise up to the call and do what Jesus commanded us to do. I am a result of the Scriptures undoing what science did, diagnose me as a statistic and not a child of God.
As one who USED to have bipolar disorder, my personal perspective is it is a condition of body, soul AND spirit. I believe there is such a thing as organic brain chemical imbalances, but I also know from experience that our enemy likes to take advantage of those sorts of things.
I was healed after prayer-and yes, after a deliverance session to go with it. I continued to go to my doctor until he had no choice but to discharce me as being well. I know I didn’t “just have a demon” but I also know that it wasn’t JUST biochemical.
This youmg man may indeed have been ill but it is my opinion that he was also demonized.
I am very interested in all of your experiences, if the believers would please pray for my suicidal daughter who is hearing voices.
YWAM has connections to the absolute top of the United States Government: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bruce-wilson/ensigns-c-street-house-ow_b_230015.html
I have absolutely no doubt that he was being tortured and responding to his torturers. The CIA has the capacity to target an individual with the media apparatus and torture them – it’s worse for someone who is ostracized by groups like the dominionists because the only thing they have is the internet to reach the outside world. I’ve had it happen to me, and I was raised in YWAM.
There were no demons, just YWAM torturing the guy until he snapped, it’s what they specialize in.
let’s drill holes in their heads so that the evil spirits can leave or better lets burn the mentally ill at the stake like our Christian forefather’s did and most of all let’s do it in Jesus Name!
Subscribe to Radical Living:
Receive updates on the latest posts as Seth Barnes covers many topics like spiritual formation, what if means to be a christian, how to pray, and more. Radical Living blog is all about a call to excellence in ministry, church, and leadership -as the hands and feet of Jesus.