How do you build a perfect church?
I wrestle with this issue so much not only because of the profound disconnect between my reality and what I see in Scripture, but because one of the necessary outcomes of a good spiritual coaching process is some kind of a church.
It does no good to rail against the church for its flaws – the church is simply the corporate expression of what God is doing in us as flawed individuals. We may feel Sunday morning angst, but being a lone ranger is not a scriptural option – the body of Christ finds its expression as spiritual gifts find their expression corporately. So, like it or not, we’ve got figure out how we’re going to do this thing we do together as Jesus-followers. It would be so much easier if we could just buy one of those made-in-America inflatable churches and be happy.
Most churches today begin from a non-biblical model – a pastor-centered church. We don’t see that in scripture. The Bible gives us directions for developing a body of Christ in Ephesians. Ephesians 2:19-20 says, “God’s people and members of God’s household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.” Ephesians 4:11-12 says, “It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God’s people for works of service.”
1 Corinthians 12:28 reinforces this, “And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers…(and he lists five other gifts).
What are we to do?
Many of us are in churches that not only are imperfect, they are based on a nonbiblical model. The typical response of Christians to such models is resignation or a critical spirit. Rather than curse the darkness, however, a better response is to embrace the biblical model and ask God what He wants to do through you to create such a body. Rather than fall back into cynicism, God wants you to look at what could be and ask the question, “Why?”
Why can’t church be a place where we are encouraged to grow in our giftings?
Why can’t I be taught and regularly challenged to grow?
Why can’t church produce mature believers?
Why doesn’t my church reach out redemptively to its community?
Why can’t church be a place where we see the power of God?
Why can’t I feel loved and accepted for who I am in church?
Why can’t I belong to a group of people who want to impact the world for Christ?
Why can’t I be a part of a body that prays?
Why can’t I realize my destiny in Christ through my local body?
Many of us will wander through this life never once connecting to a body of Christ that asks “Why?” Those of us who do mustn’t settle for nonbiblical models. And as we continue seeking for a better mousetrap, we will reach out in faith and obedience, asking the Lord to create His Church as He intended through us.
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Don’t be distracted by comments and wordy blogs. read and pray to God in your own way about what I have posted #4
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Yet another thought provoking blog Seth. I am continually perplexed by the natural propensity of evangelical Christians to label every action taken by people who profess to be Judeo-Christian faith as an expression of God himself. This is simply wrong! You write, “The church is simply the corporate expression of what God is doing in us as flawed individuals.” Though this may be loosely applicable to a very small number of churches around the US, I would argue that the rest, especially the evangelical mega-churches, are the uncritical, selfish expression of people’s personal ambitions. There is no divine intervention involved within these institutions. More poignantly, the actions of Benny Hinn can not be construed, in even the most remote sense, as an expression of God. Rather, his actions are simply sinful, hegemonic, and culturally insensitive and morally wrong.
Next, I do not believe that it is imperative for a Christian to participate in these self-consumed institutions which are based on prosperity theology, but rather I would argue that it would actually be pragmatic for an individual to practice his or her faith outside this paradigm, and seek solace in other life-giving, outward focused communities.
Next, I was also struck by your list of questions and more specifically the fact that 5 of the 9 were inward focused. Narcissism along with xenophobia are the two greatest plagues to ever hit the church. The reason why uncritical institutions such as New Life Church continue to thrive economically is because they unabashedly propagate this self-consumed belief that Jesus only cares about you; and people love to hear it. This is one of the greatest lies in history and the church must actively remove this faulted belief from its teaching. Having said this, I believe that the questions we should be asking, when attempting to create a Christ-centered model of a church are the following:
Why can’t the church be an institution that encourages its parishioners to be actively involved in the holistic ministry of reconciliation (between the rich and poor, races, ideological beliefs, sexuality, etc.)?
Why can’t the church serve as a divinely orchestrated meeting place where I can come and sacrificially offer my personal gifts (money, empathy, intellect, compassion, etc.) to improve the lives of people both in and outside this heterogeneous establishment?
Etc.
I believe these outward focused questions will lead to the development of a Christ-center community.
What I especially resonated with was the idea that we are to not curse the darkness or become cynical, while still recognizing the flaws wherever we are… beginning with the area we need to work on personally. I also noticed that you don’t call us to leave our church and start a “perfect one” (“If my pastor can’t get it right, I’ll just go start one that is.”). Yet you’re not claiming to have all the answers, either. Thank you for your encouragement and questions.
Kevin,
Re: I would argue that the rest, especially the evangelical mega-churches, are the uncritical, selfish expression of people’s personal ambitions. There is no divine intervention involved within these institutions.
Are you saying that God does not work in or through a megachurch just because of it’s size? I’m trying to to read too much into your statements because I don’t know you or your perspective. I do know mine and I grew up in a Mega-church that was a great church and it’s ruined me for life. Not because of the programs but because people were concerned about the bible, evangelism and service like I’ve never seen before. It thought it was normal and was shocked when I had to move and couldn’t find a church that was consumed by these simple things, too.
Re: More poignantly, the actions of Benny Hinn can not be construed, in even the most remote sense, as an expression of God. Rather, his actions are simply sinful, hegemonic, and culturally insensitive and morally wrong.
Where was Benny Hinn mentioned? He’s a heretic and a charlatain but I didn’t see Seth mention him anywhere.
Re: Next, I do not believe that it is imperative for a Christian to participate in these self-consumed institutions which are based on prosperity theology, but rather I would argue that it would actually be pragmatic for an individual to practice his or her faith outside this paradigm, and seek solace in other life-giving, outward focused communities.
Are you saying all megachurches are by nature part of the prosperity theology group or that prosperity theology is harmful? If it’s the 2nd, I’m so with you. If it’s the 1st, please explain that to me.
Re: Why can’t the church be an institution that encourages its parishioners to be actively involved in the holistic ministry of reconciliation (between the rich and poor, races, ideological beliefs, sexuality, etc.)?
Some churches do these things. How does one reconcile “rich and poor” and “sexuality”? Again, I don’t want to presume I know what you mean nor do I want to pick a fight with someone before I know what it is they are saying. Do you think that churches should be “open and affirming” regarding sexual bents/identities?
Re: Why can’t the church serve as a divinely orchestrated meeting place where I can come and sacrificially offer my personal gifts (money, empathy, intellect, compassion, etc.) to improve the lives of people both in and outside this heterogeneous establishment?
Personally I’d be happy to find a church where everyone could just be honest about their own problems and rest fully in God’s grace amidst the madness and mystery of life without the arrogance that can accompany “mature believers”.
“How do you build a perfect church?” You can’t and you do not have to. CHRIST JESUS did it for us.
Christ is coming back to receive a Perfect church. THE CHURCH (an ecclesia called out, SEPARATED from that which you are referring to that assimilate and call their abomination “church” that has offended, and diffused the real and true embodiment of the image of the Perfected Body).
Only those who have DIED once AND FOR ALL to the life of sin. As it is appointed once to die and after that the judgment.
God is judging us at this very moment and each and every moment of our lives. We are in eternity RIGHT NOW and THIS is the “great white throne Judgment”.
Revelation 22:10. And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
11. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
God will not accept anything that is NOT PERFECT. That which is not perfect, can be PERFECTED. To deny perfection is to live beneath your privilege. Jesus himself admonishes us to Be ye perfect even as your Father in Heave IS Perfect.
The perfection of which I speak is not the perfection of which you speak. The design and purpose of an object determines the perfect ness (noun) of an object. A chair manufactured to be a chair is a perfect chair. It is not a step-stool, nor a nor a step-ladder, nor a bench, nor a table, although it can be utilized in all of those capacities. If it is marred, or has a broken leg, or a missing leg, arm or back, if the upholstery is tattered an torn; it can be repaired and become a “perfected” CHAIR.
Sin separated us from Godliness, and our life REDEDICATED to Christ and Christianity PERFECTS us and restores us to to position we had when Adam and Eve were created.
We; who have been BORN AGAIN, are new creatures. We have been judged and found blameless, in the Great White Hall of Justice. We have been cleansed by the Blood and vicarious sacrifice of our SAVIOR. God has separated us from the tare that the enemy has sown in HIS GARDEN not ours. And God is daily sending laborers into HIS vineyard, to harvest His perfect children and one day and that could be very soon.
God will say to His Son; that is if we follow the path of 2nd Chronicles 7:14: “If my people who are called by my name {church of GOD} will humble themselves and seek my face then will I hear(I will hear their
cry) FORGIVE THEIR SINS and heal (perfect) their land.
But the greater condemnation is found is verses 16 and following:
16. For now have I chosen and sanctified {set apart} this house, (the Body of Christ)that my name may be there for ever: and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually.
17. And as for thee, (God is speaking to the Nation of Israel)if thou wilt walk before me, as David thy father walked, (Do not inject the sins of David into this discussion, Jesus had not yet died for the sins of the world. You and I do not have that “umbrella” we can be sin free) and do according to all that I (GOD)have commanded thee, and shalt observe my statutes and my judgments;
18. Then will I establish the throne of thy (OUR) kingdom, according as I have covenanted with David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man to be ruler in Israel.
19. But if ye turn away, and forsake my statutes and my commandments, which I have set before you, and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them;
20. THEN will I pluck them up by the roots out of my land which I have given them; and this house, which I have sanctified for my name, will I cast out of my sight, and will make it to be a proverb and a byword among all nations.
21. And this house, which is high, shall be an astonishment to every one that passes by it; so that he shall say, Why hath the Lord done thus unto this land, and unto this house? You can not take comfort in this either to declare that the church is not perfect; because God knows them that are His.
26. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
27. Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
28. For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
Though there be a thousand members of a “church” congregation. There may only be 2 members of that congregation in the Perfect Church. For many are called but few are chosen. Are you one of the TWO?
Our Pastor seems to become offset when there is an air of quietness during his sermons. His wife and my wife encourages him by saying Oh, Pastor the reason we are quiet is because we are listening!
Well the reason I place so much “white space” between my paragraphs, is because I want the slow readers and everyone, to be able to digest what I have to say. I know it is difficult for me to read so much when there are no periods in the sentences and the words are not separated by paragraphs. So maybe that is the reason I am not getting as many comments as earlier.
Whenever I am inspired I return as I am doing now. I too consider what I am saying to you and what you are responding to me. When I do I try to listen and determine whether or not we are connecting. That is why I am now blogging about the “PERFECTED” Church as opposed to the “Perfect” Church.
The church you have been describing to me is Man’s earthbound adaptation of a religious enterprise. It attempts to satisfy the indulgences of a philanthropic, charitable assembly.
does well to accommodate the need to recognize a supreme Deity, but does so from a humanistic and self-centered point of view. Every concept is natural, material and earthbound. The only real concern centers upon life from birth to death; only that which can be understood by the powers of the five natural senses of hearing, seeing, smelling, tasting and touching.
When it comes to supernatural, spiritual, and eternal or ethereal, parameters, we dismiss those things as impossible, unattainable, and imaginary.
And yet on the other side of the coin, we tend to embrace a tolerance for the occult, the mystic, fantasy, fiction, {science and literary} We cringe at the mention of God, and Christianity (I speak to the scoffers, unbelievers and mankind in general} and exalt Santa Clause and give animation to cartoon characters as if they were living human beings.
When will you realize that reality is not manufactured, imagined, or produced. Reality is that which is. Whether you can hear it, see it, smell it, taste it, or touch it; or not. GOD is real. Life and Death are real. ETERNITY is real. You will exist after the breath has left your natural body.
Now I speak to EVERYONE. To be alive is to be conscious of your surrounding. To exist means to be present in some form. Before you were born you existed in the form of a chemical substance that developed in your mother’s womb. When you were born you were a soul encased within a corporeal body. When you die that body will decay and return to the chemical composition from which it was created. BUT the Soul which is the essence of YOUR existence will continue to exist.
To answer some of the questions on how to build a perfect Chuech the church is the people and when we are perfect we can Inter the house that we call church then It can be perfect.
How can we become perfect? since the bible says there in none perfect but the father who made us, we are made in his Immage to his own Likeness, and yes we can be perfect once we are in christ jesus and we are in him we can be a perfect church,Thank you.
>Why can’t {the} church be a place where we are encouraged to grow in our giftings?<
FIRST LET US DEFINE “CHURCH”: From the American Heritage Dictionary.- “The company of ALL Christians regarded as a mystical spiritual body”.
That one definition, is sufficient. Anything else is un-necessary. Jesus said; “on this rock I will build MY CHURCH”. It is that church and non other that I am interested. When I address your questions I will be referring to that definition, that church, and none other.
If you think when I refer to “All Christians” as being the ONLY members of the church. You are INCORRECT. if you believe that I am IMPLYING that Jews, Greeks, Muslim, Hindu, Bhuddist, sinners, hypocrites, Atheist, etc., can not join or represent themselves to be certified members of the this church, you are absolutely correct. I do not have to write 500 pages to explain to you what I mean. I can do it in just a few paragraphs.
I can emphatically state, without reservation, that I do not exclude any of the above mentioned groups from access to membership. Jesus Himself said (Galatians 3: 28) “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus”. When you are “one in Christ Jesus” You are in fact “CHRISTIAN”.
When you look into a mirror, you see your reflection. You see your image. If you are alone, you see only your reflection, but if there are others, standing beside or around you their reflections will be seen as well, but only you will be you. When we look into the church, we should only see Christ. Instead of the other images surrounding Christ, they will appear as a backdrop or scenery. The church will be imbedded in the image of Christ. Only those that are CHRISTIAN will appear as the image or reflection of Christ. All that claim to be christians will be outside the “mystical body”.
CHRISTIANITY is not a Religion. Christianity is not a group of people or organizations, gathering together. CHRISTIANITY is the ACT or duplication of the character and personification of Christ Jesus. If Jesus did not sin, Christians WILL NOT SIN. If Jesus does not hate, Christians will not hate, Therefore if the church is the reflected image of Christ, then the church is GIFTED with all the attributes of Christ and “encouraged to grow in our gifting”.
>Why can’t I be taught and regularly challenged to grow?<
First you must be Born Again. John 3
1. There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2. The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
We all know that we are BORN into this life. There is nothing mysterious about that statement. There is no need to go into any philosophical debate or discussion about the process of birthing, whether or not we are born equal, etc. Everyone has an initial birth. However according to the Bible, that birth was polluted by the state of sin and marred our relationship with GOD our creator. Just like clay that is broken or distorted in the process of molding the original design intended by the potter is no longer acceptable. The potter must reform the image to his likeness.
In that respect, Mankind in order to conform and be restored to the origin object of GOD’s creation, had to be renewed. Fortunately for us, even though God said: Genesis 6:7. “And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them”. It was not necessary for God to utterly destroy us: (Whatever God says; can not be altered. God knowing that man was created with the ability to disobey, before saying “Let there be light” provided the process for redemption). Therefore the life of Man was suspended and not ended.
Instead of throwing away the marred clay, the potter reformed it, and remolded it causing it to be “born again”.
Once we have been born again, all things are become new. We are a new creature; a new creature that has to be “taught and regularly challenged to grow”.
>Why can’t church produce mature believers<
The {Perfect} church we are relating to DOES!
The Church of God, One body is one spirit dwells within
and all her members are redeemed and triumphs over sin.
Divinely built; Divinely ruled, to God she does submit,
His will her law, His truth her guide; her path is glory lit.
God sets her members each in place according to His will,
Apostles, Prophets, Teacher’s all His purpose to fulfill.
In beauty stand, O Church of God with righteousness arrayed,
Put on thy strength and face thy foes with courage undismayed.
O Church of God, I love your courts, you’re the mother of the free. You are the blessed home of all the {Christian} saved and we dwell {exist} secure in thee.
>Why doesn’t my church reach out redemptively to its community?<
That is a good question: Perhaps the answer is YOUR church does not have the (You fill in the blank__________________)
Men speak of a church triumphant as something on earth unknown. They think us beneath the tyrant until we shall reach our home.
O can not the great Redeemer prevail over Satan here? or must we remain yet under confusion pressed down in fear?
He (Jesus) built on a sure foundation and said that the gates of hell against His divine (am)munition can never indeed prevail. {that means when Satan comes up against you he will not prevail, and when you go up against Satan he can not prevail}.
It is not in the church of Jesus, that people yet {still} live in sin, but in the dark creeds they are joining and vainly are trusting in.
GOD’s church is alone triumphant in holiness all complete; and all of the dark powers of Satan She tramples beneath her feet.
>Why can’t church be a place where we see the power of God?
Over the age old path the centuries have trod, shone with its lustrous beams the golden light of God; Bright was the early morn of its great gospel day, When from the cross it gleamed and drove the night away.
As an obscuring fog in later days there came errors of heart and mind that hid truth’s sacred flame; Dark wer the hearts that groped with Rome’s traditions bound; Few to the heights attained where light and grace abound.
Evening has come at last, the earth is now a glow, Truth in its beauty shines and all ists way may know; Welcome, O wondrous light, illuminate each heart, knowledge of God’s blest will to every soul impart.
Help us to ever be true and worthy of the light, Servants of thine O God, who ever do the right; One with all those who serve and love thee would we be, Loyal while time shall last and through eternity.
Shining in beauty now as in the morning, driving the mist away, ending the cloudy day cometh the truth arrayed in bright adorning Ever to guide us onward in the way.
>Why can’t I belong to a group of people who want to impact the world for Christ?<
There’s a mighty reformation sweeping or the land, God is gathering His people by his mighty hand for the cloudy day is ending and the evening sun is bright with a shout of joy we hail the light.
When the voice from heaven sounded warning all to flee, from the darksome courts of babel back to Zion free, glad my heart to hear the message and I hastened to obey, now I am standing in the truth today.
Zion’s walls again are building as in the days of yore and the scattered host (are) returning to their land once more, are rejoicing in their freedom pledging ever more to stand in the reformation truth so grand.
Christians all should dwell together in the bond of peace all the clashing of opinions (and) all the strife should cease. Let divisions be forsaken and all the holy join in (as) one and the will of God in all (alone) be done.
O the reformation glory, let it shine to every land. We will tell the blessed story and in its truth we ever will stand.
>Why can’t I be a part of a body that prays?<
Prayer is the sincere desire of the heart whether spoken or unspoken. Prayer is conversing with God. You talk to and with me, and your fellow human beings, but you PRAY to and with GOD. GOD understands all languages, and verbal sounds, thoughts, intents and desires. motives and emotions.
You ARE a part of a body that prays. Remember it was Jesus who taught His disciples to pray. Are you one of His disciples?
>Why can’t I realize my destiny in Christ through my local body?<
Your destiny? Your Local body? I really do not know if I can answer that question the way it is posed. Perhaps that is a question you need to address directly to Christ. “Jesus, what is it you want me to accomplish through my local assembly?
All I can do is offer you this advice. Be an overcomer, only cowards yield when the foe they meet on the battle field We are blood bought princes of the royal host, and must falter not nor desert our post.
Be an overcomer he who stands with you Is a mighty one who is always true; In the strongest conflict you will win the day, so face the legions dark until they flee away.
Be an overcomer you are heaven’s heir and a crown of life you may ever wear, so with courage press the battle to the gates, till you gain the prize which in heaven waits,
Be an overcomer forward boldly go, you are strong enough if you count it so, Strong enough to conquer through sustaining grace and to overcome every foe you face.
Never yeild a step in the hottest fight, God will send you help from the realms of light, In Jehovah’s might put the foe to flight and the victor’s crown you shall wear at last. Selah
With all that I have said; I still feel that I have not reached you. Until you realize there is only ONE Church that matters, you will continue to wander in the wilderness of confusion. So let me be as plain as I possibly can.
GOD’s CHURCH is composed of each and every person [man, woman, and child] that has surrendered the control of their life, to the resurrected Christ. Having repented of their sin, confessed the Christ is Lord, Savior and Redeemer, accepted the role of the Holy Spirit to govern their thoughts, exercise their faith, and supply their needs.
If you have not done this or feel you are not completely in tune. Let this moment be your beginning.
The same GOD that created you and your surroundings, is no older that when Adam was created. Tell Him (in and by prayer) that you want to live for and in His will from this moment on. Tell Him (if) you do not fully understand what is happening, but you have the faith to believe He hears you and He understand everything you do not so you are trusting and believing that He will SAVE YOU (preserve you and protect your life and care for you from this day forth and for evermore.
Don’t look for sparks to fly, expect any out of body experience, or emotional sensations. Just look back on your life, take one step at a time, breath in and breath out and notice the strength that is building up within you.
Now your local body is your communion with the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit and every brother and sister that will testify that they are trusting in GOD just as you and I.
It is your CHRISTIAN EXPERIENCE, not our political correctness that makes you a member of God’s Church. It is your Holy conduct, and righteous living that places you in the perfected society of believers. If you stumble, you will be tested, you will be tempted, you will have a desire to look back, but remember Lot’s wife. God will give you each day your daily bread, and forgive your debts as you forgive your debtors.
Don’t worry if you can not put it all together right now you will understand it better by and by. You did not walk until you learned to crawl, and you did not talk until you learned to cry. So do not expect to be an Apostle until you have become a Disciple,
Take your place in the church and God will place the Perfect church into the Kingdom and Christ will return the Kingdom back to God where you and I will abide in the place that He has gone to prepare.
To update my comments on Seth Barnes question How do you build a PERFECT CHURCH? YOU or I do not. The PERFECT CHURCH has ALREADY been built. If there is any building we can do it would be building upon the foundation of that which was already built by CHRIST.
Jesus said; “I will build MY church” and it will be so perfect, “the gates of Hell shall not {be able to} prevail against it.” And that Christ did. And the doors have never closed for membership.
Where is that church and Why can’t we see it? Because mankind refuses to acknowledge its existence.
Men speak of “a church triumphant” {perfected}
As something on earth unknown,
They think us beneath the tyrant
Until we shall reach our home.
Refrain:
Thank God for a church triumphant,
All pure in this world below!
For the kingdom that Jesus founded
Does triumph o’er every foe.
Oh, cannot the great Redeemer
Prevail over Satan here?
Or must we remain yet under
Confusion, pressed down in fear?
He built on a sure foundation,
And said that the gates of hell
Against her divine munition
Can never indeed prevail.
’Tis not in the church of Jesus
That people yet live in sin;
But in the dark creeds they’re joining,
And vainly are trusting in.
God’s church is alone triumphant,
In holiness all complete;
And all the dark pow’rs of Satan
She tramples beneath her feet.